Interview with Lloyd Thivierge
Speaker Key:
IV1: Interviewer 1 (Brit Griffin)
IV2: Interviewer 2 (Tara Dantouze)
IE: Interviewee (Lloyd Thivierge)
[0:01]
IV1: So this would be… so, the person who is doing it would just introduce themselves. I mean, we don’t really need to do that because he knows who we are.
IV2: He knows us.
IE: How are you?
IV1: Then we say the purpose of this interview is to gather information about medicinal plants and their use within the Timiskaming First Nation community.
[0:20]
IV1: We’re recording you. A copy of this transcript will be made available to you before it goes into sort of the project database. And are you willing to have this project recorded? That’s a question to you, Lloyd.
IE: Oh, yep.
IV2: Right on, scone.
IV1: Okay. So normally, once… I guess once it was finished he would sign it? Or before he would sign and say he agrees to participate. We could get him to sign now, he has a pen there. Let’s get him to sign it and date it.
[0:55]
IV2: That might be-
IV1: See I was a little… I was wondering if we don’t finish each one within the time frame then how would we… He does want his lawyer here.
IV2: Oh, pretty pen.
IV1: Thank you. Lola got those for Easter for me.
[1:20]
IV2: Right on. Thanks Lloyd, I know that was difficult. [laughing] So, what is your full name and date of birth?
IE: Joseph Lloyd Norman Thivierge.
IV2: Wow eh. We learn something new every day. [laughing]
IE: June 26, 1964 is my birth date.
IV2: What’s the day, sorry? I missed that.
IE: June 26. 1964.
[2:00]
IV2: So, do you currently harvest medicinal plants on the territory? TFN territory?
IE: Yep.
IV2: Do you harvest medicinal plants on the territory outside…
IE: Yes.
IV2: Outside the territory.
IE: Yes.
IV2: And where do you harvest if you don’t mind me asking, on outside the territory?
IV1: Roughly, even.
[2:35]
IE: Ontario side. Uh, need an exact location?
IV1: No, just like… let’s say you went up to Temagami or something, then you could just say Temagami.
IE: Hilliardton and area. Tomstown. Haileybury.
IV2: Oh, okay, nice.
IE: Too numerous to mention. [laughing]
IV2: Have you in the past harvested medicinal plants outside the territory?
IE: No.
[3:45]
IE: So I only started harvesting when I started working here. I learned about the medicines and stuff. So before that, I was completely in the dark.
IV1: That’s interesting.
IE: Only knew a little bit but not as much as I know now since I started working here.
IV2: Yeah that happened to me too, like, my knowledge went just through the roof after working here. Okay. How often do you now, or did you in the past, harvest medicinal plants? We have options for you. Weekly, monthly, seasonally, only occasionally over the past year, or other.
[4:25]
IE: Seasonal.
IV2: Seasonal… Did you gather medicinal plants as a child?
IE: Nope.
IV2: Which plants do you currently harvest?
IE: I was a child. [laughing]
IV1: So it’s a chart. So we would go like name of the plant…
IE: Labrador tea…
IV1: Yeah, maybe to go across.
IE: Sweet gale, sweet fern.
IV2: You can keep listing them. So medicinal plants…
[5:15]
IE: Blueberry leaves. Pine sap… like, for colds and stuff. Yellow birch… use that for inflammation pretty much… What else?
[6:20]
IV1: So for Labrador tea, do you use just the leaves?
IE: Just the leaves, yeah.
IV1: And what do you use that for?
IE: General.
IV1: Just general health [inaudible].
IE: Yeah.
IV1: And sweet gale?
IE: Sweet gale is pretty much urinary tract.
IV1: Do you just use the leaves?
IE: Yep. Usually dry, but sometimes fresh. Same with the sweet fern.
IV1: The dried or fresh leaves-
IE: You combine the- sweet fern and sweet gale combined is urinary tract.
[7:10]
IV1: Okay, so they’re both for- okay.
IE: Works.
IV1: So you’d make, like, a tea?
IE: Mhmm.
IV1: Okay.
IV1: And what about the blueberry leaves?
IE: Blueberry leaves are diabetes. The whole plant itself; berries, leaves, and the roots.
IV1: And the roots?
IE: Yeah.
IV1: And what time of year would you dig up the roots? IE: Probably in the summertime. Same time as the harvest.
IV1: Okay.
[7:50]
IV1: And do you put the roots in a tea or what do you do with the roots?
IE: Usually tea.
IV1: Tea? Okay. And the pine sap? What time of year would you harvest that?
[8:10]
IE: Usually… Probably fall, maybe. [inaudible] … or, summer to fall.
IV1: Summer to fall? Okay.
[8:30]
IE: If it’s- probably if it’s hard enough you can harvest it all year round.
IV1: And how do you harvest it?
IE: Just strip it off with a knife. If you can make- you can hurt the tree. The sap is going to run and that’s when it’s going to get hard. Then you just go back and harvest it after. Don’t kill the tree, but just make a little… a little notch on it like a tap in, like, a maple tree. Just make a little hole there.
IV1: What would you make that with, just a knife?
IE: A knife or an axe.
IV1: Okay.
[9:10]
IV2: And what would you use it for?
IE: Colds. Sore throat.
IV2: Cool.
IV1: So to apply it- do you mix it with something, or you just use straight-up sap?
IE: Mix it with… I usually chew it for a while. Sometimes it’s kind of a gummy consistency. Oh, fancy word. [laughing]
IV1: That’s a technical term you’ve got.
[9:45]
IV2: For the birch, what part of the birch would you use?
IE: There’s one- two layers you have to get rid of to get to the medicine part. The white- the first part, peel off the bark- top bark. And then under that bark there’s another layer of green bark. Or whatever you want to call it. You scratch that green part off and under there there’s another layer of orange. That’s the layer you want. You just peel it off with a knife. Boil that for a while, until the water turns orange, yellow, whatever. And just drink it. That’s good for inflammation.
IV1: So is it just yellow birch?
IE: Yeah.
IV1: Any other plants that you can think of at this time?
IE: Don’t stress me out. [laughing] No, uh, probably do but I’m not used to, uh…
IV2: On the spot?
IE: I’m not a very vocal guy, eh? [Can’t make out what is said – should be reviewed and verified.]
IV1: I think this is the most talking I’ve ever heard you do. [laughing]
IE: Oh you noticed, somebody noticed! [laughing]
[11:10]
IV2: So what do you consider the most important medicinal plant that you’ve harvested?
IE: Chaga.
IV1: We should probably put Chaga in here too.
IE: Or some people call it birch conk. And the new book I got there that’s what they call it. Birch conk.
[11:35]
IV1: K-O-N-C? K-O-N-K?
IE: K-O… I don’t know.
IV1: Okay.
IE: It’s in the book there somewhere.
IV1: And what do you use that for, general health?
IE: General, yeah. Tea. Or coffee, whichever one you want to call it.
IV1: And do you grind it up first, or?
[11:50]
IE: Sometimes you grind it up and other times you just boil it in chunks.
IV1: Okay, and does it matter?
IE: No.
IV1: Okay, so why would you go to the trouble to grind it up?
IE: Well, the way I see it, if I grind it up it’s a coffee. If I don’t, if I use chunks it’s a tea. So, it doesn’t really matter.
IV1: Okay. Thank you.
IV2: So you would think that Chaga would be essential to your health?
IE: Most definitely.
[12:30]
IV2: Do you use medicinal plants in your cooking at all?
IE: No.
IV2: Do you look for any special habitats or locations in order to find certain plants… medicinal plants?
IE: Yep. Mostly, uh, Labrador tea.
IV2: Okay. And then the other plants, you just kind of happened upon them by chance or you know where they are located?
IE: I know where they are located.
IV2: Are there any special weather factors that you- that helps you decide when to harvest? Just, like, the time of season I guess.
[13:50]
IE: I don’t like going out in the rain, that’s about it. If I’m out there and it starts to rain, I don’t mind, but if it’s raining and I’m inside, I don’t want to go out there. [laughing]
IV2: Are there any particular rules you use in harvesting?
IE: Don’t overharvest, you mean? Like, stuff like that?
IV2: Yeah, something like that.
IV1: [inaudible] … the way you count, or?
IE: Yeah, I pick so much of the plant and, uh, leave it. I don’t clean out the whole plant.
[14:25]
IV1: So you just sort of eyeball it? You think, oh I’m taking [inaudible] can stand?
IE: Yeah. Pretty much. I want to go back next year and make sure there’s some there.
IV2: Are there any plants that you think animals use as medicine?
IE: No idea.
IV2: Yeah, that’s an interesting question.
IE: Maybe deer eat lichen. They like that. Old Man’s Beard, there, on a tree. Or moss on the ground, that colour.
IV2: Yeah I’ve seen that.
[15:05]
IE: So I don’t know if that’s medicinal for them, maybe, I don’t know. I wouldn’t know. I’m not an animal talker. [laughing]
IV2: Have you noticed changes over time to plants that you have traditionally harvested?
IE: Not really. Only change I see is harvesting trees for where we used to go harvest Labrador tea and stuff.
IV2: So, like, timber or logging has impacted the use?
IE: Yeah. At the same time, it’s benefits because when you cut there, somehow, someway, that blueberry bush pops up and, you know, little bit of this, little bit of that.
[16:15]
IV2: Have you noticed any changes in your access to medicinal plants?
IV1: Like are they farther away, are they- have been any changes?
IE: No, I don’t think so.
IV1: No? Okay.
IE: Just in Ontario, they have gates here and there once in a while. Sometimes you go in there, it’s open, the next thing you go back and there’s a gate there. Or else you go pick somewhere, next thing you know it’s a private sign. Private property. That happened to us in Haileybury, there, at the back.
IV1: Oh yeah?
IE: When you’re harvesting some sweet fern…
IV2: Sweet fern city.
IE: Sweet fern city and sweet fern fruit we were picking there that time. Next thing you know, we went back there and a sign there; private property. Fine, I’ll go on the other side of the road. [laughing]
IV2: Are you concerned about any ongoing access to medicinal plants?
[17:25]
IE: Could you be more specific?
IV2: Well…
IE: Can you explain that question to me? I kind of don’t understand it.
IV1: So I guess it would be sort of asking do you feel that there’s, say, more gates than there used to be, more private property… worse weather… anything that might, in the future, make you not able to access the medicinal plants that you would like to.
[17:50]
IE: Yeah. More private property signs. Seems like first time we go there, like, you know, like I just told you, there. We’re okay but next thing you know, people pass by and they probably tell the land owner, “I see some people on your land over there.” Next thing you know they put up signs.
IV1: So you think it probably was private property all along [inaudible]. Okay. I think there might be just one more question.
[18:25]
IV2: Do you consider these plants that you talked about to be really vital to your way of life? Is it really important to your way of life now?
IE: My later years. Younger, I never knew about all that. Just a smidge, but… As I got older I tried to respect more nature and stuff like that.
IV2: Do you think it would have been really beneficial if you were to learn more in your younger years?
IE: Yep. Definitely.
IV2: And how has this knowledge benefited your life?
IE: Good. I like it. I’m okay. I’m living. I think that birch, yellow birch we talked about helps a lot. I have bad knees and bad back and I drink that and…
IV1: It helps?
IE: It helps, yeah.
IV1: How much do you have to drink?
IE: Oh, I just drink a cup a day, two maybe. Make a cup or two.
[19:50]
IV1: And are there some things that you take every day just, like, for your general health but then other things that you take, say, when you develop symptoms? Is that how you would… say Labrador tea and Chaga, do you take those all of the time?
IE: Uh, pretty much every day, Chaga. Labrador tea is whenever I feel like having a cup of Labrador tea. Don’t have to be ill or nothing, I just want to drink something from the bush.
IV1: Yeah.
IV2: Nice
IE: Then it’s good.
[20:20]
IV2: Alright, so that concludes our interview now.