Interview with Bertha Chief and Arthur Wabie

Speaker Key:

IV:  Interviewer (Candace Polson)

IE1: Interviewee 1 (Bertha Chief)

IE2: Interviewee 2 (Arthur “Bean” Wabie)

BY: Bystander – unnamed.

[00:00]

IV: Going to be recording as well.  IE1: Okay.  IV: Hang on.

[00:08]

IV: Right now we’re working on a climate change project and what we’re trying to do is understand which plants are important to the community.  IE1: Yeah.  IV: ... and how- how we can help with the long-term sustainability of these plants.  IE1: Yeah.  IV: Yup.  IE: All plants!  IV: Yup.  IE1: They’re all important! [laughing]  IV: Yeah! Yeah!

[00:35]

IV: Exactly. So the purpose of this interview is to gather information about the medicinal uses of certain plant species. So like Labrador, and everything like that.  IE1: Oh okay yeah.  IV: Uh, so we want to learn about the plants that you use either today or even in the past.

[00:49]

IE1: Okay.  IV: Yeah. And, I’m going to be making transcripts of the audio recordings so we’ll have one available to you as well.  IE1: Okay.  IV: Are you willing to have your interview audiotaped for these purposes?

[01:02]

IE1: Sure.

[02:11]

IV: Yeah, it’s going to take about 10-15 minutes, it’s not very long at all.

[02:54]

IV: Do you currently harvest medicinal plants on TFN traditional territory?

[03:13] IE1: Yeah. IV: Yeah? Okay. And do you harvest medicinal plants on lands outside of TFN traditional territory? Yeah? Okay, and if so, where?

[03:25]

IE1: Uh, Maniwaki, eh?  IE2: Maniwaki, yeah.  IE1: And some, uh, I don’t know, some other places.  IE2: Oh, pick them up all over.  IE1: Yeah.  IV: All over?  IE1: Wherever you can find wike[sp] and stuff like that. IV: Okay.  IE1: Yeah.

[03:39]

IV: Okay, let’s see where we are. Next page! So, have you in the past harvested medicinal plants outside of TFN traditional territory? Like, when you were younger.

[03:54]

IE1: We don’t really gather wike[sp] around here, there’s uh-  IV: Okay.  IE1: Yup. Uh, so it would have to be on the outside. Yeah.  IV: Okay. And anywhere you can find them, again?  IE1: Yeah. Mostly from people, actually.  IV: Okay.

[04:05]

IV: So how often do you now or did you in the past harvest medicinal plants.  IE1: All the time!  IV: All the time? Okay.  IE1: All the time in the past.  IV: So, like, pretty much weekly, or whatever?  IE1: Yeah.  IV: Or seasonally, I guess, maybe?  IE1: Yeah, well, I drink uh…  IE2: Seasonally, mostly, eh?  IV: Okay.  IE1: I think, uh… IE2: We pick them all over.  IV: Mmhmm. [Inaudible] IE1: Yeah, harvesting season. Mostly in the fall, eh?  IE2: Yeah, fall mostly. IV: Okay.

[04:35]

IV: And…  IE2: Supposed to pick medicine at the end of August and September.  IV: Oh, okay!  IE2: Only when you’re supposed to pick them.  IV: Yeah, eh. Okay.

[04:43]

IV: Did you gather medicinal plants as a child? If so, who taught you what medicinal plants to harvest?  IE1: My mom.  IE2: Her mom taught me, there.  IV: Okay.  IE2: Bertha’s mom.

[05:04]

IV: Okay, so this is- this is the longest part of the interview but if you could just name a couple plants, what part of the plant that you use, how you prepare it, if you use a tea, or ointment… IE1: [Inaudible] [laughing]  IV: Yeah! [laughing] Just a couple of them, some of the more important ones.  BY: Will have to copyright that!  IV: Yeah! [laughing]

[05:22]

IE1: Just do yarrow for now.  IV: Okay. Yarrow. And which part of the plant do you use?  Do you use the-  IE1: All except the roots, eh?  IE2: Yeah.  IV: Okay.

[05:36]

IV: And do you make a tea with it, or…  IE1: Yeah, mostly tea.  IV: Tea, okay.

[05:42]

IV: And, uh, what kind of health issue or ailment does- would you use it for?  IE1: Uh, fever…  IV: Fever.  IE1: Yeah. High blood sugar.  High blood pressure.

[06:03]

IV: Any other plants? That you use mostly…  IE1: Plantain.  IV: Plantain, yeah.  IE1: Yeah.  IV: And what part of the- that plant would you use?  IE1: All except the root.

[06:18]

IV: And again, a tea? Or…  IE1: Ointment.  IV: Ointment? Okay. And what’s that for-used for?  IE1: For infections.  IV: Infections, okay.  IE1: Yup.

[06:31]

IV: So you just kind of put it, like, on the infection?  IE1: On, yeah-yeah. IV: Okay. Uh, any other… IE1: Yeah, that’s okay.  IV: Any other plants that you can think of?

[06:43]

IE: Uh, I’ll say this in Anishnabe…pashkabakwan. [sp]  IV: Okay.  IE1: [laughing] I’m not saying it in English. [laughing]  IV: Okay! That’s okay.

[06:54]

IV: And what would you use that for?  IE1: Uh, kidneys.  IV: Kidneys, okay.  IE1: It’s a drink.  IE1: So, like a tea, or...  IE1: Yup.  IV: Yeah.

[07:05]

IV: And is it leaves or roots or the whole plant…?  IE1: Uh, it’s the- it’s the whole plant except the roots.

[07:17]

IV: Any other ones you can think of?  IE1: Uh, Chaga.  IV: Oh, okay. And that’s a tea as well, eh?  IE1: That’s a tea, yeah.  IE2: [inaudible] plants you want?  IV: Yeah, just plants.

[07:38]

IV: And that’s more of a general health one, right?  IE1: Yeah.  IV: Okay.

[07:45]

IE1: I make, uh, I make Chaga and, uh, chai tea and blueberry.  IV: Oh okay!  IE1: Like a smoothie.  IV: Oh, a smoothie! Cool!  IE1: [laughing]  IV: Secrets? [laughing] Cool! Okay, anything else?  IE2: What about those buds?  IE1: Oh yeah.  IE2: Top of those trees.  IE1: Oh yeah. That’s, uh, Aspen Balsam… Aspen balsam buds. [laughing]  IE2: We call it.. we call it [inaudible] eh?  IE1: Yeah.

[08:22]

IV: Ohh, okay.  IE1: Yeah, yeah.  IE2: That’s good for high blood pressure.  IE1: Yeah.  IV: High blood pressure?

[08:29]

IV: And how do you prepare that one?  IE1: You just, uh… IE2: Have that, about… [inaudible]  IE1: How do you say that anyway, where you keep it in a jar and just keep turning until it’s, uh, it’s infused. Uh. Okay, just infuse it in oil. Infuse it in oil.

[08:45]

IV: Oil? Oh okay. And do you drink it, or?  IE1: No, you just- you take a… and you put it inside your nose- you take a cotton-what do you call those- Q tips.  IV: Oh okay.  IE1: And you put it in your nose.  IV: Oh okay.  IE1: Yup.  IE2: Good for high blood pressure.  IE1: Yeah.  IV: Okay.  [laughing]

[09:10]

IV: Uh, so those were- would be the ones that you use most often?  IE1: That’s the ones we have right now, yeah.  IV: Yeah? Okay.  IE1: And, uh, we also use this [?] medicine, that we get from an Elder but it’s not ours here, so.  IV: Oh okay.  IE1: Yup [inaudible] other place.  IV: Okay.

[09:27]

IV: Um, so what would you consider the most important medicinal plant that you currently or have in the past harvested?  IE1: All of them. The ones that I just mentioned.  IV: All of them?  IE1: Yeah.

[09:37]

IV: And do you use any of these medicinal plants in cooking?  IE1: Not really.  IV: No?  IE1: Yup.  IV: Okay.

[09:44]

IV: Uh, are there any special habitats or locations that you look for in order to find certain plants? So maybe for a certain plant you might want to look somewhere that’s swampy, or-or drier, or shaded.  IE1: I don’t know, the plantain is just right out there.  IV: Okay.  IE1: And, uh, the Chaga is- you find- you have to find hardwood.  And, uh, the pashkabakwan[sp] mostly the pine tree area.  IE2: Yeah.  IV: Oh okay.

[10:22]

IE1: We also use, uh, [inaudible] dandelion and stuff.  IV: Okay.  IE1: Yeah. I’ve used red willows for allergies in the past, too.  IV: Oh yeah, red willow.  IE1: Yeah.  IV: Okay. I’m going to add that one, actually.

[10:37]

IE1: Red willow roots. You make tea with it.  IV: Okay.  IE1: Makes nice tea.

[10:44]

IV: And uh, hemlock, too.  IE2: Hemlock is for your sore- sore bones.  IE1: Pain, yeah. For pain.  IV: Okay.  IE2: Hemlock bark.

[10:56]

IE1: They don’t have it here. That’s when you’d have to go out, yeah.  IE2: Yup. Go out for that one.  IE1: Hardwood area, I guess, eh? [inaudible]  IE2: Maniwaki, you can pick it, and probably around Kipawa.  IV: Oh, okay.  IE2: Yeah, hemlock.  IV: Okay.

[11:15]

IV: Um, are there any special weather factors that you look for in order to decide that it’s time to harvest?  IE1: Mostly in the fall, maybe.  IE2: What’s that?  IE1: When we harvest, we go pick?  IE2: Yeah. 

[11:30]

IV: So when it starts to cool down like in the summer, sort of?  IE1: Yeah.  IV: Okay.  IE1: I find everything is just all stronger [inaudible]  IE2: That fella- that old fella told me, he says, soon as the dandelions turn white, you know, when all that stuff goes off, that’s when you can pick your- pick your medicines.  IV: Oh! Okay.

[11:48]

IE1: I missed out on the dandelion there, here.

[11:57]

IV: Are there any particular rules you use in harvesting so, a lot of what the people said that we are interviewing is only take a third of the leaves from each plant.  IE1: We just take what we need.  IV: Okay, yeah.  IE1: Yup.

[12:12]

IE1: Sometime we get a lot of gifts.

[12:20]

IV: Are there any plants that you think or know of that animals use as medicine?  IE1: Oh yeah. The moose eats under the water, that’s their medicine.  IV: Oh, okay.

[12:35]

IE1: Then we get that medicine. Same as the beaver. All animals! [laughing]  IV: Yeah, yeah! [laughing]

[12:45]

BY: Then they grab [inaudible] beaver castors after.  [laughing]

[12:51]

IV: Have you noticed any changes over time to plants that you have traditionally harvested?  IE: Oh, the pashkabakwan seems to, uh, gets overharvested.  IV: Oh really?  IE1: Yeah, because it’s a kidney medicine, yeah.  IE2: The reason why, because they pull the whole plant out, roots and all.  IV: Oh.  IE2: When I go and harvest that, I use scissors, cut it off so the root stays in. IV: Okay.

[13:25]

IV: And have you noticed any changes in your access to the medicinal plants?  IE2: Huh?  IV: Have you noticed any changes in your access to the medicinal plants?  IE1: Uh, oh for sure, yeah, kind of hunt around for [inaudible]  IE2: I know where to go for pashkabakwan is. Every time I walk around in the bush, I look for it.  IV: Oh, okay.

[13:58]

IV: Um, are you concerned that climate change could affect your ability to harvest medicinal plants?  IE2: Oh yeah.  IE1: I’ll get you a drink of water. I want to show you something after.  IV: [laughing] Okay!

[14:12]

IE2: Try that water and tell me what you taste. [inaudible] What do you think?  IV: Tastes pretty, uh, clean? I don’t know. [laughing]  IE2: Give me another cup there, Bertha. Another cup. I’ll let you taste one more. A different kind of water.  IV: Okay.  IE2: This one here, look. You dad has- had one of those things-  IE1: Oh I didn’t give you the right water that’s why.  IE2: A distiller.  IV: Okay.

[14:56]

IE2: That comes out of the distiller.  IE1: I’ll let it run longer.  IE2: And that comes out of that one there, look. See?  IV: Oh yeah.  IE2: You see that little tap?  IV: Yeah.  IE1: Oh this one here.  IE2: Yeah. We have a whole bunch of machines. [laughing] That’s the taps, now I want you to hold that other one. Changes, the difference, eh?  IV: Yeah.

[15:23]

IE1: This is the tap water, from the tap, and this one here is, uh, filtered.  IE2: Comes through that machine, there.  IV: Mmhmm, okay.  IE1: This is the one I drink. [laughing]  IV: Oh yeah.  IE2: Which you like better? That one or this one?  IE1: Did you taste the other one? That one?  IV: Yeah. This one’s good.  IE1: You see the difference?  IV: Yup.  IE1: [inaudible] tap water?

[15:50]

IV: What’s this one, then?  IE2: That- distiller.  IV: Oh okay.  IE2: Yeah. That’s that one, there.  IE1: Mine is healthier. [laughing] Actually, you know we use distilled water only for making medicines.  IV: Oh okay!  IE1: Yeah. We don’t use, uh-  IE2: Tap water.  IE1: Water with minerals in there.  IE2: Distilled water.  IE1: Yeah.

[16:12]

IE1: We use pure water for making medicine. Just to get the pureness from the medicine.  IE2: It’s all good water.  IV: Right.

[16:23]

BY: Clean water, you get good results.  IE2: For making medicine.  IV: Okay. Alright. So, my last question is, uh, do you consider access to these plants to be integral to your way of life?  IE1: Not right now. But I don’t know about the future.  IV: Okay.  IE2: Should be good, yet, for a awhile. For quite a while.  IE1: All the trees are still standing, I figure we’re okay.  IE2: As long as they don’t start cutting down all the bush.

[16:57]

IV: Okay. Do you have anything else to add?

[17:00]

IE1:

I don’t know. [laughing]  IE2: You know lots, uh- they cut down all those trees… Okay, that’s alright. [inaudible] But still, lots of that medicine will- will grow back.  IV: Okay.  IE1: Yeah, and sometimes new stuff comes out too.  IV: Okay.  IE1: Yeah, yeah. It all depends, yeah.

[End 17:57]